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Messages - Scott Jones

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I notice that the calculator does not account for the saturation/logarithmic influence of CO2 concentration.
The calculator gives increasing impact for the doubling of CO2 as the concentration increases.
E.g. A=100, B=200 gives 1.49 W/m2
A=200, B=400 gives 1.75 W/m2
A=400, B=800 gives 2.37 W/m2
A=800, B=1600 gives 3.30 W/m2

The current consensus says (incorrectly) that power change should be logarithmic (i.e. the same for each doubling of CO2).

The actual function is actually a logistics function, where CO2 absorbs all available 15um IR and then distributes it through kinetic collisions, leaving nearly all CO2 unsaturated and available to absorb more radiation as it is generated.

This is my calculation on the ability of CO2 to absorb photons.
CO2 Absorbs between 14.2 and 15.8 Micron (550-800cm-1) = 2 micron range
At 20 degrees Celsius, a CO2 molecule has an average kinetic energy of approximately 6.04×10−21 Joules
15 um wave is Energy is 1.3e-20 joule = 8KJ/mol)
15 Micron rad generated from earth surface = 25w/m2=25j/s/m2 x 2micron wide = 50j/s/m2
Photons generated  = 50/1.3E-20=3.8E21 photons/s/m2
Moles of Photons per second/m2  = 3.8E21/6E23=0.0063
Atmospheric Molar density at STP 1 mole per 22.4L =>  1000L/22.4=44.6429 moles/m3
Moles of CO2/m3 at STP => 44 Moles/m3 *0.04% CO2 = 0.0176 Moles of CO2/m3
Ratio of CO2/Photons +> 0.0176 moles CO2/0.0063 photons =2.8 more CO2 per m3

From Happer
 - CO2 has the ability to dissipate radiation through collisions
 - CO2 Time to re-emit IR = 0.2s to 1 s
 - Mean time between collisions 1ns - 1 billion collisions per second
 - Energised CO2 is almost none - 0.000001%

Based on these calculations CO2 will continually absorb nearly all photons within 1m.

Dr Yong Zhong seems to have the best take on this as can be found here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6LUbfrNtdU&list=PLnHF41Qzzvb6QsxSeiF45GQQMwHgbbVNL&index=9 especially around 9mins.




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Functionality overview:  Climate Bell's calculator computes the power of the photons redirected back to (retained by) Earth's system when intercepted by GHGs in the atmosphere as illustrated in the diagram above.

Can I suggest a better explanation is that
"the calculator computes the power of photons absorbed by GHG and retained in the atmosphere as illustrated in the diagram above."

This removes the suggestion that photons and back radiation do any real warming when it is nearly always kinetic collisions that do the warming.

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The GHGs only hold the stored energy from those absorbed photons for a brief period before releasing that energy back in uniformly random directions through photon emissions or redistributing the energy during collisions.  From an energy point of view, it can be thought of as an isotropic "scattering" of the energy

This explanation seems to focus on photon emissions being the major mechanism of GHG distributing their energy when according to William Happer that close to the surface the energy be will distributed through collisions in 99.999% of cases. This is also supported by experiment with the Pirani Gauge if you refer to Tome Nelson's Podcast #98 with Tom Shula.

It seems that photon re-emission is almost zero until you get to the stratosphere.

I know none of this invalidates the spreadsheet calculations, but it might be good to de-emphasise the role that radiation plays in the atmosphere.

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